So I can see why some churches would want him on board. Like God might show up. One of the most chilling doctrines out of Calvinism is using Paul for this purpose. They wear what they believe are trendy shirts typically untucked to cover the middle aged spread with skinny jeans. I doubt he walked away broke. Join thousands of others to get the FREEDOM POST newsletter for free, sent twice a week from The Christian Post. What Im curious though is how the church (corporate) can self regulate against that in the face of the money and power, both spiritual and temporal, that types like MD help create. no., Thats the crux of the message, isnt it? Mark was one cog in a system that should never have been in place. Saul did get out of Dodge for some years. Hosted at every James River Church campus. Clear All United States - All Cities I see inviting Driscoll anywhere in the same context as some dumb kid wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. The women say as part of the program they were taught to believe that they were possessed by the devil, and have since been forced to receive years of professional psychiatric treatment. I dont think people that have fallen for false teachers are stupid, i think instead it reflects the degree of deceit in the false teachers and the seriousnes of the manipulations being used. CAn you see him in some sort of corporate environment working for a woman? i think they ended up closing them or not being involved in them anymore, there is an american branch of them now though. i think that Jesus and God are Awesome, the only crisis i have been having is in my view of the world and the church. . Im not saying that I don't believe anyone, I really just want to learn the other side of this argument. I have met Pastor Lindell once, months ago. Mark Driscoll was totally missing those things. GW is also currently preaching John Hagees End Times Armageddon sermons to pump up the numbers, claiming the Rapture WILL take place prior to 12-31-18, in order to scare folks into those spontaneous tubs. Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. James River Church | Christian Church - Springfield, MO elisabeth seton wrote: Good point as far as it goes. He did it from one of the most powerful places in Southwest Missouri the pulpit of James River Church, where he leads an Assemblies of God congregation that often tops 9,000 worshipers on Sundays. The word "love" appears, Lindell said, because it would be unloving not to tell someone that when salvation is at stake. As I said, I am not a fan, but I can see the appeal of *his image,* from way back in the late 60s when posters of him 1st started appearing in college dorms. 2.the contents of the gallbladder; bile (proverbial for its bitterness). It was never presented to me as something evil just something totally unnecessary and potentially dangerous. I do not for one minute believe they are suddenly open. Missouri has not limited attendance at houses of worship but has advised social distancing. "He saw it for what it was. Why dont Driscoll and the boyz just get it over with and rename their religion Paulianity? At some point, with enough outcry and rage from outside, they may hopefully see it as you did looking up at that 3 x 5 card on your bulletin. Applying this mode to spiritual abuse has gotten me thinking..and I wonder if in the future Mark will only hang around people/churches that are willing to stay on this Drama Triangle. Far as I can tell Driscoll is arrogant, a lover of money, unholy, not above reproach, etc. James River Assembly hosted a Christmas pageant last December in the midst of the covid pandemic. no., to forgive them prepares you to see jesus. in the first years of the organinazation they didnt do anything without consensus because they believed that if they were a group of believers the Lord would make them of the same agreement on specific issues and if they didnt reach agreement there was a reason that needed to be looked at. @ sam: Missouri church service Saturday evening. Popularity and attention of the masses is not the right motive for serving the Lord. You need to check yourself Lindell then apologize and repent. Thats exactly what I was thinking last weekend! Don't you know that the way he behaved and treated people is no big deal? Come on Lindell, Morris, Kellogg and Johnston. This has taken a toll on me and my family, as well as those close to me, the former senior pastor wrote in a letter posted on the ROCs website. Im guessing Driscolls trying to resurrect his career by going into Charismatic type denominations or churches. Or is it just a GW thing? Think of it as telling a kid how special they are every day and giving them a trophy daily. This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. I called Stephens and informed him Lindell had mentioned him in a sermon. It probably did. But much of the Australian backlash has centred around Mr Driscoll's comments about women. Location. With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. i have met people that have told me that they went to gateway (and other churches that are similar) but no longer do without ever saying why. Its the same game he has played. Active homosexuals will not make it into heaven, Lindell said in the sermon. I dont view it as cynicism although I do joke about it that way around Christians to head off the backlash. In February 2008, less than two months after his promise not to abandon our orphans, we received a letter from Scott Thomas. Well, we can handle the truth. Return to homepage. These churches are both responsible for vetting their speakers, and they utterly failed on this one. (we want to prop mark up so he can do it himself), Mark says: Why should we be surprised? Persecuted, but You cant criticize me for a moment. If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. Its appalling that through your words and actions you are able to re-injure the real victims with such ease all while smiling and chuckling on your stage. yelling at the referees for too many seasons. But the dishonest churches can be relied upon to cry persecution. As much as I distrust Acts29 and the YRR, and as much as many see Matt Chandlers action as mere damage control, at least he admitted that they screwed up, and there is still hope that he really meant it and that they will really act differently in the future because theyve learned something. But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. i have very little church experience so i dont think i am qualified to even speak to these things though. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. I would not say Driscoll was a jerk. And he actually dismissed several of them as how Sissies or men who wear product in their hair act. It is certainly understandable we would see it differently. How do you see this as someone looking in? In his case, [Pauls] trust had to be earned, for obvious reasons. Im not as strong or wise as Lydia, but I hope to provide valuable insights based on my experience so that those with eyes to see and ears to hear get out and get out quickly. Thank you again. Did MD admit to being WWII under duress or was that more mischief from Dark Miscoll? Sopy and humility i think is something that is a mark of a true christian that cant be faked, it always looks fake when people try to do that. Years ago, he spoke from the pulpit against the expansion of casino gambling in Missouri. Mark flatly denied it, but I believe we may be seeing a pattern here. Most people have more sunk into that cult than they do their homes. If after many years of that, he wrote a book about how God brought about change within, Id be interested in reading it. Likewise, you cannot be or stay a pastor if you find out that you cant respect people. Its also called community in a box. There is no reason why he should be a pastor again. helpful or even hopeful in terms of my eternal afterlife. Great observation! An event of this magnitude, indoors and in such close proximity, combined with case numbers where they are and our hospitals full, could be devastating, he said. Church membership requires showing your W-2 and mandatory tithe https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/. What is tragic is that these events will lead everyone who has two braincells to rub together to come to the following default conclusions: . That is certainly not an idea they got from the Bible. He was an abusing thug. While I appreciate that we were exposed to different theologians, it seemed the bent was toward Calvinism. But in America, (to quote HUG) its all about the Benjamins, baby. I simply offer another perspective. everything that happened at the cross was prophesied about long before Jesus was crucified, one propesy: Psalm 69:20-21 He later boasts that he did not immediately go get instruction from the apostles in Jerusalem, but he does not say exactly why. He said that his hands were tied. This pastor was humble! For mr. driscoll to change the whole meaning of this into the sponge was probably really used as toilet paper because he did some study in some far away country is to bring doubt to Gods prophecies and the fulfilment of them. Unless of course, they give up the celebrity/money/position and go into obscurity getting real jobs. Blech!! The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. Consider how he attained it fleecing the flock. (He repented quite often in the past when some were afraid to put his vulgarity on their conference stages.Piper shilled for "repentance"). Otherwise, quit calling those 40 pastors and all those victims liars. Ever heard a sermon about Slaying your giants? Not a fan but many are. Missouri church service Saturday evening. I knew I was being set up when I watched MDs embedded church video posted here at TWW. They use lots of hair gel and work on their golf tans. He returned to Maryland in March 1965, when he was assigned to an Assembly of God church in Cresaptown, just south of Cumberland. i think that it worked quite well for Youth with a Mission for several years and then it went awry and i dont know the particulars of what happened. Unfortunately I dont see loose associations of Christ followers functioning in my locale but I continually find more dones, those done with institutional church. i was thinking about how i probably sound critical to some people when i post on here about how i dont think people are apologizing right. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. Something has gone seriously wrong in Mega-Land and it aint just thinking about having MD speak at one of their conferences. There will be a day of reckoning. Sure, It is very reasonable for kind folK to see something, anything, that looks like actual remorse before they think its ok for them (missive pastors) to go back to influencing the lives of the folks that they wish to shepherd. i was looking for my link to Rob Smiths orphanage and found that he has recently posted a great response to those propping up Mark Driscoll. I do hope that nobody is still saying these same things before they clean up their own act. "Eastview Christian Church pastor, Mike Baker, resigns after son, Caleb Baker, is fired from Central Christian Church for adultery" Why? So Brian Houston lied and succeeded in ending the protests and the media scrutiny temporarily. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. Unfortunately, during this difficult season, the focus has been taken off of Jesus and put on me, and that is not what The ROC is all about., http://www.richmond.com/news/local/crime/article_8c6b7719-c4af-523b-b3a6-3c6131e32fd3.html. We saw a good deal of quick forgiveness/cheap grace from defenders of TVC. The point of closed systems is to keep them closed. You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting such a bully in the name of Jesus Christ. In the wake of this and other scandals, the Mars Hill Church collapsed . Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community so long as you bow to him and stay on his good size. i am going to get a can of alpha-wolf-away and spray out my apartment now. was paul asking for forgiveness? Are you not voting for the candidates and issues Gateway told you to? Thats why every post they make against corrupt churches matters. In his sermon, Lindell cites several verses to make his No. A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. A large percentage of modern evangelical mega-churchianity is beyond comprehenshion. This was a new song to me. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. This can be anything from praying for people over the phone to working in the Online Campus studio. Its all good until (insert question or issue). 4 Ways of Discerning If You Have Left Jesus Behind. I hope I am wrong. The resistance is to Jesus. Stephens, in my opinion, has gone to great lengths to keep his position on the ordinance incomprehensible. Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. Same goes for singles. My Comment was Deleted Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? Its much harder to leave that way. Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. actually Jesus spoke to people He had healed early in His ministry and told them not to tell everyone, they did anyway and He spent the rest of His ministry having crowds pressing against Him and having to go hide sometimes. Are we really talking about clerical influence/position/authority and money? The ones leaving arent stupid. He can be forgiven. When you go to these posh country clubesque entertainment centers their #1 priority is to get visitors connected and plugged in. In 2019, James River reported an average weekly attendance of 19,000,[1]making it one of the ten largest AG churches and one of the largest churches in Missouri (subsequently Springfield). I dont see how or why the Jerusalem church could have trusted him at that point, even though they might (or some of them might) have believed his vision and repentance were real. The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. Considering the level of corruption I impute to mixing with Driscoll, Im not wondering much. now it seems that it has just gone to big business making a dollar off of Jesus name and some easy to quote scriptures. Mot only do I think Driscoll is a wolf in sheeps clothing, but I think hes opportunistic, and because being a preacher is all he knows. Then the authentic community unravels like a cheap Walmart sweater. Here are just some of the phrases he uses as he shares the story. James River Church attenders should google What happens if you get a bad teacher. They just have to shamelessly scam more money in the name of Jesus. The program includes signing over any welfare benefits to the Ministry, with the program alleged to contain little actual psychological assistance, and mostly prayer and expelling demons. Then I would take notice that there might be something to their repentance. I arrived a little late here, and this has likely already been mentioned (I havent read all comments). I felt physically ill when I saw them. Every week seems to get more strange and more openly cult like. "Join us as we welcome guest speaker, Pastor Mark Driscoll, while he presents Paul the ForgivenPastor Mark Driscoll speaks from Acts 6:8-15 to discuss the importance of forgiveness in our own lives through the example of the Apostle Paul. in prison. Association of Related Churches What in the world could someone with his outlandish views contribute to conferences at Hillsong or James River? It is all choreographed and it works! His style appealed to the carnal nature of 21st century Christians he gave them what they wanted and they loved it so. It is an issue of protecting other people. Mars Hill Church was ending its relationship to Agathos. Sometimes the writers have an agenda, at others, there is more of an assumption of knowledge that the original readers/hearers possessed that we dont. It is often just a wise thing to do if one is familiar with those types. 2023 www.news-leader.com. You can learn a lot about someones character from how they treat those who are below them in status. Why am I concerned? I just think that there is not much reason to listen to just his side of the story and think that is all there may be to it. when the pastor first says, his humility he almost breaks out laughing (cause maybe he knows how stupid it is to say that). One needed them because they were somehow spiritually qualified (?) "I do not think, frankly, it is a matter of your business or Mr. Lindell's business or even my wife's business," Stephens told me. I said some decent things, but one can and probably ought to take that with a grain of salt. . Nancy And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. shuning is not always done professionally as in TVC but so often done whisperingly in churches but the effect is the same to the person shunned. Dont get Left Behind. Then he could claim more fictional persecution. So grateful others are addressing these serious problems that plague Christendom. well i cant finish watching the whole thing. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? One of six. He said it makes sense that the word "sin" would appear multiple times in a Biblical discussion of homosexuality. CCHD encourages individuals who were present at the high-capacity event over the weekend to monitor for symptoms of COVID-19 for 14-days from the event date and seek medical attention if symptoms develop., Church officials defended themselves in a statement issued to KYTV-KSPR, noting that despite what the images show, we take seriously the safety and health of those who attend our services.. You will hear the Velcro bar/connect center mentioned several times in each service. I agree that if the object is to fill seats and keep the money flowing in, then Driscoll and the others are doing a great job. At least at one point, women made up about 50% to 50% of most churches. Of course, we have yet to determine whether there has been a real change in Mark Driscoll's life. I have a young friend who was totally enamored with him. In many ways, Barnabus is like Pauls pastor for a time. Didnt God send a vision or angel to some other guy, or a dream to him, and tell him about Paul, that Paul could be trusted? Good luck to you Sam. OTOH, they may yet surprise us and probably even themselves. I hope you encourage them to visit TWW. I respectfully dissent, Evangelical NIH director Francis Collins says 'most churches' should be remote until public is vaccinated. But forgiveness doesnt mean he should ever be in the same position in a church again. In a statement to the Ozarks Independent, James River Church said it has taken temperatures at the door, sanitized its children's areas and common areas multiple times per day, provided masks. Actually, I think the timing was just for that reason. This is not a measure of faith. We are believing this 5-day event will change your life! If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. Obviously, I disagree with Lindell on the upcoming vote. Pastors who give Mark Driscoll a platform are adding to the abuse of those of us who were abusively treated by Mars Hill Church. In 2010, Outreach magazine listed James River as one of the fastest-growing churches in America. they get tired of hearing his kind words they shove it into his mouth. The last time Robert Morris met and greeted anyone as part of his service he still had his braces/retainer on. I suspect that process would take a bit longer with Driscoll hes a bigger mess. I assumed that it was just me and 25,000 other people had no issue. My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. He urged Christians living in the city limits of Springfield to vote to repeal the law and to leave church with a Yes-On-Repeal yard sign. It is profoundly ironic that false teachers twist this particular scripture in an abusive way to their advantage just so that they can continue abusing. I am sorry if anything I wrote about Che offended you. If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, it might be that his words and patterns of behavior, actions dont match. I am also pretty sure the accounts of his instrumental role in bringing Russian nuclear-armed ballistic missiles to Cuba to be used against the US were not purely fabricated, so I did not believe I was disseminating false information at the time I wrote that. At his height of fame Driscoll was the bad boy of the Christian world. It shouldnt be about raw numbers of attenders and financial statements if it is a true church. stephen doesnt blameshift, doesnt lose his temper, stays calm. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . Not much time has passed since he stepped down. 11 The Lord told him, Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. Driscoll has been more than a jerk, he has shown the inability to hold power without abusing it. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. I think it underestimates those believers in the pews who are, themselves, filled with the Spirit and do exhibit the fruit of Galations 5. Have you not spilled all your dark secrets at Freedom Ministry? He can be reached at 836-1253, spokin@gannett.com, on Twitter @stevepokinNL or by mail at 651 N. Boonville, Springfield, MO 65806. If we were after money we would need to time our exit before Driscoll pulled the roof in again. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. He essentially called the Driscoll victims liars and persecutors. FTR Hillsong is also Assemblies of God. I am a current attender who was raised by people who love this church but I definitely have my confusions on a few things. Weve got enough local crazy around here, we dont need Mark Driscoll and his He-Man Woman-Hating Circus. But over time became desensitized and swept up in group-think so as to eventually accept it as acceptable in the 21st century. You might be onto something there Sopy. Albuquerque Blue wrote: Driscoll was never really qualified to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the first place he proved that time and time again by his un-Christlike behavior in word and action. *MD and Mark Demoss calculated an irresistible snow job, tailored just for pentecostalworld (who are generally open to things without empirical proof). His messages change in content, but not in root meaning. Is that leader with a criminal record hitting on your young teen? Reveal the conspiracy please. A cult expert I spoke at length with said it may be harder to find the right one, but a smaller church is the way to go. IMO, They are still who they are. Many times it kept me from feeling like I was the only one who could see this stuff or understood how wrong it is. I tend to doubt it but who knows. Your comment about magic words reminded me of Simon the Magician in Acts who was so popular and had all kinds of attention because of his magic performances. I am thinking visitors, right? So, I read what he wrote, I listened to his speeches, sermons, etc. I had never heard someone talk like that. Whats worse, total lack of good character. As for my outsider perspective he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. (stephen the shepherd? James River Church(formerly, James River Assembly) is a Pentecostalmulti-sitemegachurchbased in Ozark, Missouri. Rob Smiths orphanage was totally defunded and left broke by Marks Hill, the Lord has taken up for those children, thankfully. GW also exports as they seemed to pioneer or at least perfect the concept of having pastors write books for personal profit then when the books sell too slowly, they have the main church and all their friend churches purchase the books in bulk to give away to the congregation resulting in transferring thousands of tithe dollars to individual pastors. Is to be- The virus is having a wonderful time right now spreading through this country, taking advantage of circumstances where people have let their guard go down. You dont find out about some of the really bad stuff until you are pretty deep into it. It was because of a backfire in strategy by then executive pastors Jamie Munson and Scott Thomas, who handled my discipline case. They did not want us to leave. District. Imagine that. It was like my eyes were open. What I dont get is that those pastors dont care if they look completely dishonest in their statements. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1989926/posts I wish I knewits beyond comprehension. As for my outsider perspective he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. But. Bummer. i would rather be in fellowship with people that realise they still have sin but instead of rationalizing or blameshifting, show fruit of the Spirit in overcoming it. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. Q. How can they do that? Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. Like I said, I dont want to get into an argument here. I asked people who were about as famous (if that is what you call it) as him what they thought. Having a large following for a while, being insulated from most of reality, produces this result.

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