New! The heavier 120- to 125-grain loads performed similarly. Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). But it was visible when we used the Romeo4 red-dot scope. Springfield provides a hand stop to keep your fingers from straying in front of the muzzle, but it is somewhat reduced in size. Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. I plan on using it primarily for hunting and some plinking. Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget, 5 Best AR-10 Options You Can Actually Afford (2023), Best .380 Pistol Options For Deep Carry (2023), 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). This removed any slack between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. JavaScript is disabled. Thanks to the precise trigger, the shooter always felt he was in complete control. The Springfield Armory SAINT Line - The Armory Life As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. I'll go with the Sig and do those upgrades for sure. By 5george31 in forum Rifles Replies: 92 Last Post: November 3rd, 2016, 05:28 AM. The Saint is one of the most user-friendly versions of this user-friendly platform. Featured one of the most consistent triggers weve tried and costly ambidextrous controls. Dependent on load, firearm and environment, expect anywhere from a 250 fps to 350 fps difference between the lengths. It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. Probably, but not at 900 fps. Detent at the safety was heavy and secure without any rough edges. The Springfield Armory Saint Victor .308 was announced 2 months after SIG had secured the sale with India in April 2019. A PDW is not a rifle. Decibels dont drop like flies with every load. That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. To activate it from either side of the gun, I mounted its tape switch on the Rattlers Picatinny top rail. MCX-SPEAR . Maximum bullet weight was considered to be 69 grains. The top rail was not really functional as a connection point, but it provided venting. The bottom of the grip was removable, and there were fittings to hold popular batteries such as the CR123 or AA inside. After some time and the Rattler was more widely seen in the wild. Our best-of-test group measured 0.4 inch across. There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. If the Mk4T had either of the triggers found on the SIG Sauer or Springfield Armory carbines, it might have been the accuracy champ of this test. Whereas the SIG Sauer presented direct pressure against a solid object, the Saints trigger offered a subtle compression before reaching its breaking point. All content is 2006-2015 Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. Sig M400 tread or Springfield saint victor : r/ar15 - reddit Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308, https://www.surplusammo.com/categori-308-mags.html, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to Joe Kurtenbach and Caleb Giddings also look at the first-ever optics-ready carry revolvers with the new Taurus 605 and 856 T.O.R.O. Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. I'm having a hard time deciding on which one of these to purchase. The trigger is Springfields flat trigger, first introduced on the Saint Victor line. The SIG Rattler is something special. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. Im sure some of the attention it will initially get will be negative from people who feel the same way. Matte Black. Hampering this a bit out of the box is a mil-spec clone trigger, easily rectified with your favorite upgrade model. Thanks Bio. Love my M400 Tread and if I was in the market for another AR Rifle, i'd absolutely consider it. Both companies have reputations for occasional issues with their QC, but Sig certainly produces a higher tier product overall. At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. So, I spread the wealth equally. Springfield Armory Saint Victor. What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. Both of them are chambered in uncommon, proprietary bottleneck cartridges, the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, respectively. Looks pretty sweet . The only complaint is the 300 Blackouts A2 flash hider. In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. Will it perform at greater distances? Coming in at 5.1 pounds empty, sporting a 5.5-inch barrel and folded length of 17 inches, the MCX Rattler is definitely compact enough to be carried anywhere. Still love Springfield but im sour on that line. Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). When I saw it, I wanted to hate it, specifically for what it isnt. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. The upper, including the mix of Picatinnny and Keymod rail, was more modern than the lower, which offered more traditional components, such as the plastic grip with single finger groove and the buttstock that was sans any padding. The TaurusTX 22 Compact delivers class-leading reliability, capacity, and shootability in a 22 LR platform, and it's cut for a slide-mounted mini red dot. I would really like to hear from you guys who have had access and range time with these MSR's. Can't wait to find the price on this and see one in person . There was, however, a relief on each side of the handguard about 2.5 inches ahead of the receiver for attaching a quick detach (QD) button-style sling loop. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . Save my name and email to use for future comments. In our view, the advertising campaign that preceded the Saints introduction underscored that the AR-15 is not just for the military. PDWs in the modern era see most use with government security details where large rifles are not needed. It was too short. In late 2019, Springfield released the SAINT Pistol, featuring upgraded components and a retail price of just $849. Build a gun that works and, by gum, the world will beat a path to your door. We tend to the 7.5-inch SBA3 model, given its the rare smallster in the caliber that doesnt demand a kings ransom. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. My wife said I'm going to buy me a new gun which one do you think the Blue or Orange . The result was more shots fired within the allotted time limit. Subscriber Services. Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. Ive also thought the same thing about 20-round magazines in a full-size AR. But we loved the buttpad and the overall contour of the stock. Instead of being located at 3 oclock and 9 oclock, additional Keymod holes were located in a line upon the surface area that angled upward to the top rail (10 oclock and 2 oclock). So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . Not only did the 77-grainers shoot straight, this uber-short-barreled pistol grouped between 2.5 and 4 MOA with everything I gave it. The rear-sight assembly (sometimes referred to as BUIS or backup iron sight) was a flip-up design. Cookie Notice The Sig Enhanced is heavy and not as responsive as youd expect in a gun of this class, somewhat akin to a mil-spec job. Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. SIG MCX Rattler For Sale SIG Rattler and SIG MCX Rattler 5.56/300Blk Pistols For Sale Online All new SIG MCX Rattler Pistols are now available in 5.56 and 300 Blackout calibers. The first was the SilencerCo Omega 9K, which is only 4.7 inches long and weighs 7.2 ounces. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. At the gun expo my wife shoot the Orange in 40 cal and she made me shoot it which at the time I wasn't interested in doing , we had two tickets left for ammo so I got in line and lets say after shooting it and hitting metal 10 out 10 I was impressed , I have never shoot any thing as smooth as butter , the gun just was a work of metal and design . As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. I'm selling my XD and definitely going with the MCX. For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). Pretty standard, yes, but the 5.56 rendition comes with Springfields forward blast diverter. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . Chris Johnson, FN Senior Product Manager, walks us through two new FN striker-fired pistols at SHOT Show 2023: the FN 510 Tactical, chambered in 10mm Auto, and the FN 545 Tactical, chambered in .45 ACP. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201for-carve-out/, http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685, https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017cal-gun-dealer, http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/5406606027600/, St. Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners, If this is your first visit, be sure to It's The only Sig I have left I won't give up because I like it that much . The barrel is tipped with a special version of Maxim Defenses interesting Hate Brake. We liked this because it simply wipes clean, making it easy to keep track of debris buildup and wear. I have builds from BCM, Springfield, Noveske and PSA. The Rattler has a one in five twist rate. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Is the Rattler a precision instrument? Our action test was designed to tell us more about trigger response and maneuverability than could be culled from a static benchrest session. Comfortable to hold, the handguard offered the most versatility of our three rifles. Installed with a 3/8-inch drive socket from the front, it can fit under handguards. Compared to most everything else on the market, the 10.5-inch barrel (1:7 twist) pistol is an absolute Cadillac. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. Like the MPX, the MCX uses a short-stroke gas piston system, which does away with the need for a buffer system, and the weapon can use a folding stock or no stock at all. This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. Life has a melody. Sig Sauer has really redefined the word versatility with the MCX and MPX, and it doesnt get much better than the Rattler in close quarters. A wide selection of CMP surplus ammo will 2023 JNews - Premium WordPress news & magazine theme by Jegtheme. However, I ended up loving it for what it is. To change the shooters perspective and in effect reduce target area, we staggered the targets. We set up a three-target array with just 10 feet between each target. Rattler was built to be fired primarily unsuppressed, with the ability to be suppressed, if needed. Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. The new big bore pistols feature industry-first capacity, with a standard 15-round capacity and 22+1 rounds of 10mm or 18+1 rounds of .45 ACP from the extended magazines. Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. Want to optimize the hush on a 300 Blackout pistolor carbineits a subsonic ammunition affair. The grip was certainly not traditional, offering a very friendly profile, including a pinkie ledge, at the bottom and an extended backstrap up over the web of the hand. Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. Springfield Armorys $899 Saint, the manufacturers first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. But thats what your 20-inch barreled baby is for, right? We also liked the bead-blast finish on the barrel. It's perfect for sporting or home defense with high reliability and some furniture and trigger upgrades that set it apart from other budget AR-15s. Has anyone actually tried the omega 9k on the rattler? All remaining rounds produced 1-inch groups. There was another location for a QD sling from either side at the rear of the receiver just below where the buffer tube was attached. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. To the average shooter the price tag doesnt quite reflect it, but the Protector is top-shelf Wilson Combats entry-level 300 Blackout pistol option. We also tested with 77-grain OTM 223 Remington rounds manufactured by SIG Sauer. The 2nd pic is from the Sig website.. SIG Sauer has just introduced their latest offering in their tread series of rifles with the introduction of the SIG TREAD Snakebite SE. A light, compact AR pistol in the right caliber is easy to carry for long distances . Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. Following the success of its initial collaboration with Vertx, Premier Body Armor announces its continued partnership. they bring all the guns and you buy the ammo and have a blast . The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. How the Springfield Saint Compares to Other AR-15 - The Shooter's Log The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. Taurus Marketing Manager Caleb Giddings highlights the features of the new Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum, a purpose-built revolver with a 10.5-inch barrel and an effective recoil-taming brake, with Guns & Ammo Executive Editor Joe Kurtenbach. This round was designed to offer terminal ballistics similar to the AKs 7.62x39mm while still being compatible with AR-style rifles, requiring only a barrel change. The BCM Gunfighter buttstock offered sleek lines with no protruding levers that might catch on gear, such as the straps of a chest rig. Essentially, this makes the suppressors job easier, since it has less expanding gas to dissipate. So me and the wife was going to the local gun shop so I could buy my Springfield Hellcat RDP , While I was doing my paper work the wife was looking around and was checking out some hand guns she was looking at the CZ's They had the Shadow 2 orange in 9mm $1,900 . View Product. In the same breath, the gun is compact enough to enhance its nimbleness, yet big enough to ensure the cartridges ballistic integrity. First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? (CA The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. Building on the popularity of the company's Rattler in 300 BLK, SIG Sauer introduced a new model chambered in 5.56 NATO for 2019. . SIG MCX Rattler SBR . A Magpul dual split aperture flip-up rear sight was attached to the top rail that ran the length of the receiver. Why pay more? The barrel is only 5.5 inches longsomething unthinkable with a direct-impingement AR. Between the friendly trigger, which our shooter was able to stage as we moved from target to target, and some adrenalin, we had added one full circuit, even if all 15 shots werent perfect. Sig Sauer. and our So was the grip and handguard. But if you want range, get a longer-barreled rifle with a slower twist rate to optimize 125-grain loads. So after that day it was on my dream list . I really appreciate the input. (Tie) LWRC Smg-45 ($3k?fuck!) The barrel has a 1:8-inch twist and is Melonite coated. Extraordinary accuracy. MSRP: $1,100; springfield-armory.com. It has a cone-within-a-cup two-piece design reminiscent of the Noveske KX3. Anything beyond 100 yards and that starts to fade. The other rifles did not suffer this complaint. What is it? MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. I wrote SilencerCo to ask about the Hybrid compatibility. HKs MP7 has never been available in any commercial form. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] - Bravo Company Buttstock/Pistol Grip/Handguard/Trigger Guard, Nickel Boron GI Trigger, 16 Melonite Barrel w/ 1:8 Twist. Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. This website contains many older reviews. Thoughts on MCX Rattler Canebrake. 300AAC | SIG Talk Awesome pistol by the way. Subsonic ammunition, as its name suggests, pushes bullets below the speed of sound. If we were to describe the bolt lock/release assembly as a seesaw, the typical lower end could be seen as being constructed without the seat. I will not consider another firearm from the Saint line ever again. The issue is, get it wrong, send a bullet yawling at the muzzle and youre contending with endcap and baffle strikes in your suppressor. Every MCX also comes with an ambidextrous safety selector and magazine release for righties and lefties. The buttplate had a thin rubber pad smoothly integrated; it was more friendly to clothing or bare skin for that matter. SIG Sauer MCX-SPEAR: Civilian Version of XM7 Rifle Arrives! Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. The civilian version of the U.S. Army's new XM7 rifle. Surrounding the barrel and piston system is a 5-inch, free-floating M-LOK handguard. Privacy Policy. Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. Now I have Seven Springfield guns with Five Saint Victors . The aluminum hanguard is 6 inches long and has M-LOK attachment slots. So these two were on my list . New Springfield Saint. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. It has a pretty decent barrel and is reliable, so I can recommend it as a solid choice. During our action tests, we landed four A-zone hits on targets left and center. It may not display this or other websites correctly. In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. Magazine release from the left side was a little easier if pressure was applied more toward the rearward edge than over the center of the button. You are using an out of date browser. For a full answer to that, were going to have to explore exactly what a PDW is, but before I do that, lets look at the specs of this gun. The M-Lok handguard gives you the ability to attach . I would use the 110-grain Barnes TAC-TX load and never feel undergunned. But After getting hooked on the Springfield Saint line I lost interest in the Sig , I feel bad. With the desire for a more up-to-date AR-15, we went shopping and found that we didnt have to break the bank just get comfortable within a price range of about $900 to $1250 dollars. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. So goes the AR-556 line of ARs. And After shooting the CZ 75 Tatical sport orange I was in love . Specs and Features Parts are straight off the "recommended" list, as Saint uses an M16-profile USGI-spec bolt carrier group with a select Carpenter 158 bolt. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308 - M4Carbine.net Operation was very smooth and secure. SIG Sauer Introduces the New SIG Tread Snakebite SE. Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. The "Tread yellow marking" is just an mlok insert, mine didn't even come with one, but you can easily remove it. Also visible with the top end hinged away was the Accu-Tite tension system consisting of a synthetic non-marring screw that mated flush beneath the bottom of the connecting lug. At 1,900 fps, youll still get a good permanent wound cavity, some temporary cavity and the ability to defeat armor in most cases. The result was sub-MOA groups (less than 1 inch center to center) from two of the five test ammunitions, including our lightest bullet and our heaviest. Got to check one out a few days ago at my LGS who's a Tier 1 Sig dealer. It began in earnest in the late 1980s. Rather, the AR-15 is an ideal defensive weapon necessary for the legally armed defense-conscious American. Profits before the 2A. I'm looking for advice on whether to buy a Sig Sauer MCX or the Springfield Armory Saint (new free float version). Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. We think mounting accessories in the arc between the top rail and the sides shows a lot of promise for easy control. Short and sweet, the 5.5-inch barreled MCX Rattler is as compact as 300 Blackout pistols come. The visual theme of the Saint was that it looks to be one piece instead of an upper and lower, or as some say, it looks monolithic. The Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX had fully expanded by 7 inches, leaving a perfectly mushroomed bullet weighing 108 grains at 26 inches. That never occurred with the Dead Air Sandman-K, but the Rattler never missed a beat with either and ejected every case as fast as could I pull the trigger. What more can you ask for? We think this made the trigger a little more user friendly in that there seemed to be more time for the shooter to completely refine a shot. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. Pistol: Semi-Auto. The art of shooting groups from support is about being patient. Though its important to enter this aspect of the cartridge with eyes wide open. Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. One by-product of this arrangement was an extension of the lower portion of the bolt lock/release lever. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The Springfield Saint AR-15 is a great entry-level AR-15 that is easy to use and customize. Saw that email pop up today. Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. They are dead to me. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. The only upgrade we spied was a relief in the takedown pin that helps keep the punch, or bullet tip, from sliding off under pressure. The upper circumference was reduced, guiding the index finger to the trigger. Nevertheless, we were able to score A-zone hits with all 12 rounds fired before time ran out. I mainly shoot at an indoor range. The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. Fitting right into this slot is the Saint Victor 300 Blackout Pistol. The trigger presented a crisp break at about 7.6 pounds of resistance with barely an ounce or two in variation from shot to shot. As far as apples to apples, do your research and see for yourself that you will get slightly better product with a Springfield compared to a sig, better coatings on barrel, BCG (both melonite) and a Nickel boron coated trigger. The hammer and trigger components were treated to a silvery nickel-boron coating. MCX or Saint - Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The selector switch is bilateral and works just fine. The $1000 CMMG Mk4T may still use the M1 buttstock and grip, but the 416 stainless-steel barrel offered a 1:7 twist on the inside and a bead-blast finish on the outside. The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Gun Tests has been independently reviewing firearms since 1989. Target order was dictated as a circuit of left, center, right, left, center, right, and so on. It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. Elwood Shelton is an online content developer for Gun Digest. Two apertures were supplied, but the larger aperture was too open, in our opinion. FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. Probably 2k rounds through it and has always gone bang. Now weve got Springfields PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX ammo was the most consistently accurate of the supersonics, with a group right at 0.75 inches. The company has several 300 Blackout pistols worth considering and fairly comparable in construction. Targets left and center showed four A-zone hits, but one shot on each target was outside of the A-zone. The buttstock, although appearing very much in the M4 tradition, was modified to offer holes on each side for a quick-detach sling loop. The gas block is pinned in place. Springfield Armory's $899 Saint, the manufacturer's first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. Compare specifications of Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB and Springfield Saint Victor Pistol 300 AAC Blackout STV909300B. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. Please keep us posted. Sig Sauer may have the answer in the MCX Rattler PCB! As a PDW cartridge, the .223/5.56, unlike the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, is grossly inefficient.

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